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Question to Teacher: Confused between position/order counters
Course 3 Lesson 7: Two Chickens (Grammar)

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Post Date: 2020-11-04 14:29:58

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2020 Jul 16

Questions: 13
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I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head round the difference between the position and order counters. In my mind, if you're number 4, you're 4th, so I can't understand why the -ばん counter would need め added to it (as it is in one of the examples). I understand the use of め with the other counters, it's just the -ばん counter I have issues with.

When would you use the -ばん counter on its own, and when does it need め added?

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JFZ Teacher (Kanako)

Post Date: 2020-11-16 02:18:23

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2003 Mar 03

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This is a good question and also a hard question to answer :)
It would be easier to understand (and explain) if I give you examples using different situations.

The ばん counter is used to show position in a group of people or objects.

いちばん (ICHI BAN) = number one; best; most
にばん (NI BAN) = number two
さんばん (SAN BAN) = number three

(Situation #1)
All customers have numbered tickets at a bank and they are waiting to be called.

ななばんのおきゃくさま、どうぞ。(NANA-BAN NO OKYAKUSAMA, DOUZO)
= Customer #7, please (come).

In the above situation, the ばん counter should be used. You have your own “number”, so they don’t have to say 7ばんめのおきゃくさま (NANA-BANME NO OKYAKUSAMA/ the seventh customer).

If there is no numbered tickets and everyone is waiting in line, then a bank teller would say;

にばんめのおきゃくさま、どうぞ。(NI-BANME NO OKYAKUSAMA, DOUZOU)
= The second customer (in line), please.

Or つぎのおきゃくさま、どうぞ。(TSUGI NO OKYAKUSAMA, DOUZO)
= Next customer, please.

にばんのおきゃくさま (NI-BAN NO OKYAKUSAMA/customer #2) sounds strange in this situation because there is no customer holding a numbered ticket.

(Situation #2)
You are ordering one of the numbered lunch set meals at the drive-thru.

３ばんのランチセットをください。(SAN-BAN NO RANCHI SETTO O KUDASAI)
= I’d like a lunch meal number 3. / I’d like to have a number three combo.

If you are ordering a lunch meal using pictures on the menu in a restaurant (there is no number on each meal), you can say;

みぎから２ばんめのランチセットをください。(MIGI KARA NI-BANME NO RANCHI SETTO O KUDASAI)
= Please give me the second lunch meal from the right.

You need to say ２ばんめ (the second one) in this situation and point at the meal you want to make it clear.

I hope it helps :)